Barack Obama on AI, Free Speech, and the Future of the Internet
In this discussion on Decoder with Nilay Patel hosted by Nilay Patel, former President Barack Obama shares his insights on the intersection of AI, free speech, and Social Media Visibility's impact on democracy. He highlights the urgent need for effective government regulations to keep pace with technological advancements. Obama emphasizes the importance of expertise in governance, advocating for tech professionals to contribute their knowledge to public service. He explores the balance between innovation and regulation, pointing out the risks of bias in AI and the necessity for diverse platforms in ensuring fair dialogue.
Highlights
- Time, place, and manner restrictions on speech may be acceptable or unacceptable depending on the context. Case law often develops around arguments and disagreements related to freedom of speech. Platforms like social media are not just common carriers, but actively engage in content moderation. Society has a legitimate interest in knowing how platforms make content moderation decisions. Transparency in algorithmic amplification and decision-making processes is important. Understanding how decisions are made is important even if they are not illegal.
- Rules and regulations have been implemented in the past for children's television and maintaining balance in views. Setting up rules in a democracy is not anti-democratic or squashing innovation. The First Amendment promotes a marketplace of ideas where better ideas can prevail.
- Different platforms and business models are needed to address various aspects of our lives, such as AI-mediated shopping apps. Creating alternative spaces for political discourse and cultural exchange can help broaden perspectives and encourage learning. Government legislation may not effectively address the need for diverse information and perspectives online. Consumers need to interact with companies and discover alternatives to counter the reinforcement of existing biases. The younger generation may find social media and other apps repetitive and boring over time due to their focus on delivering familiar content.
- Apps and social media can become boring and repetitive over time. There is a market for products that go beyond simply providing familiar information. AI may be suitable for certain tasks like elevator music, but human artists and performers are still valuable.
- AI can work fine for elevator music. AI can do a good job for average legal briefs or research memos. Part of the human experience and genius is unpredictable, messy, new, rough, and weird.
- AI tools are designed to anthropomorphize and make it feel like you are talking to a human. The objective is to pass the Turing test and create a more magical experience. AI should be viewed as a tool, not a buddy. Public education on AI capabilities is needed. AI models are powerful extensions and reflections of oneself.
Snips
[24:56] The Development of Time, Place, and Manner Restrictions on Online Platforms
🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (23:51 - 25:00)
✨ Summary
Time, place, and manner restrictions may be acceptable, but there is disagreement. We need to figure out how to balance the right to protest with preventing hate speech. Social media platforms are more than common carriers, they moderate content. Society should have transparency into how decisions are made.
📚 Transcript
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Barack Obama
Come up with a whole bunch of time, place, manner restrictions that may be acceptable in some cases, aren't acceptable in others. You get a bunch of case law that develops. There's arguments about it in the public square. We may disagree. Should Nazis be able to protest in Skokie? Well, you know, that's a tough one, but, you know, we can figure this out. And that, I think, is how this is going to develop. I do believe that the platforms themselves are more than just common carriers like the phone company. They're not passive. There's always some content moderation taking place. And so once that line has been crossed, it's perfectly reasonable for the broader society to say, well, we don't want to just leave that entirely to a private company. I think we need to at least know how you're making those decisions, what things you might be amplifying through your algorithm and what things you aren't. And it may be that what you're doing isn't illegal, but we should at least be able to know how some of these decisions are made. I
[29:56] Regulating TikTok Algorithm for Children's Education
🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (28:28 - 29:57)
✨ Summary
As the president, I discussed with my family the idea of implementing regulations on Chinese TikTok to ensure it teaches kids to be scientists and doctors. We were all in favor of it. Drawing from past examples like children's television requirements and the fairness doctrine, we can create rules that promote a democratic marketplace of ideas.
📚 Transcript
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Nilay Patel
With my family last night and the idea that the Chinese TikTok teaches kids to be scientists and doctors. In our TikTok, the algorithm is different and we should have a regulation like China has that teaches our kids to be doctors. It came up and all the parents around the table said, yeah, we're super into that. We should do that. How would you write a rule like that? Is it even possible with our first name?
Barack Obama
Well, look, for a long time, let's say under television, there were requirements around children's television. It kept on getting watered down to the point where anything qualified as children's television, right? We had a fairness doctrine that made sure that there was some balance in terms of how views were presented. And I'm not arguing good or bad in either of those things. I'm simply making the point that we've done it before. And there was no sense that somehow that was anti-democratic or it was that squashing innovation. It was just an understanding that we live in a democracy. So we kind of set up rules so that we think the democracy works as better rather than worse. And everybody has some say in it. The idea behind the First Amendment is we're going to have a marketplace of ideas that these ideas battle themselves out. And ultimately, we can all judge better ideas versus worse ideas.
[35:00] The need for different platforms and models to broaden perspectives
🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (33:03 - 35:01)
✨ Summary
We need different platforms and business models for AI mediating online shopping. But for political discourse and culture, we need alternative spaces that broaden perspectives and promote learning. Legislation won't achieve this, it's up to consumers to discover alternatives. Even though I'm not tech-savvy, my daughters in their 20s find all the apps and social media threads eventually boring because they only reinforce what you already know.
📚 Transcript
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Barack Obama
I actually think probably needs to happen, though, is that we need to think about different platforms and different models, different business models, so that it may be that I'm perfectly Happy to have AI mediate how I buy jeans online, right? That could be very efficient. I'm perfectly happy with it. If it's a shopping app or a thread, fine. When we're talking about political discourse, when we're talking about culture, et cetera, can we create other places for people to go that broaden their perspective, make them curious About how other people are seeing the world, where they actually learn something as opposed to just reinforce their existing biases. But I don't think that's something that government is going to be able to sort of legislate. I think that's something that consumers interacting with companies are going to have to discover and find alternatives. The interesting thing, look, I'm not obviously 12 years old. I didn't grow up, you know, with my thumbs on these screens. So I'm an old ass, you know, 62-year guy who sometimes can't really work all the apps on my phone. But I do have two daughters who are in their 20s. And it's interesting the degree to which, at a certain point, they have found almost every app, social media app, thread, getting kind of boring after a while. It gets old. Precisely because all it's doing is telling them what you already know or what the program thinks you want to know or what you want to see.
[35:46] AI and the Future of Music
🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (34:24 - 35:47)
✨ Summary
Older guy finds apps boring because they only tell you what you already know. He believes there's a market for products that offer something new. He compares AI to elevator music, joking that elevator musicians are worried about losing their jobs.
📚 Transcript
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Barack Obama
So I'm an old ass, you know, 62-year guy who sometimes can't really work all the apps on my phone. But I do have two daughters who are in their 20s. And it's interesting the degree to which, at a certain point, they have found almost every app, social media app, thread, getting kind of boring after a while. It gets old. Precisely because all it's doing is telling them what you already know or what the program thinks you want to know or what you want to see. So you're not surprised anymore. You're not discovering anything anymore. You're not learning anymore. So I think there's a promise to how we can, there's a market, let's put it that way. I think there's a market for products that don't just do that. It's the same reason why, you know, people have asked me around AI, you know, are there going to still be artists around and singers and actors, or is it all going to be, you know, computer Generated stuff? And my answer is, you know, for elevator music, AI is going to work fine, you know, for- A bunch of elevator musicians just freaked out, dude. You know, for the
[36:20] "For elevator music, AI is going to work fine" A discussion on the role of AI in music and other creative industries
🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (35:19 - 36:25)
✨ Summary
AI can handle tasks like elevator music and legal memos, but creative pursuits that tap into the messy, unpredictable, and rough aspects of human genius will always require human artists and performers.
📚 Transcript
Click to expand
Barack Obama
The same reason why, you know, people have asked me around AI, you know, are there going to still be artists around and singers and actors, or is it all going to be, you know, computer generated Stuff? And my answer is, you know, for elevator music, AI is going to work fine, you know, for- A bunch of elevator musicians just freaked out, dude. You know, for the average, even legal brief, or let's say a research memo in a law firm, AI can probably do as good a job as a second year law associate.
Nilay Patel
It was certainly as good a job as I would have.
Barack Obama
Exactly. But, know, Bob Dylan or Stevie Wonder, that is different. And the reason is because part of the human experience, part of the human genius is it's almost a mutation. It's not predictable. It's messy. It's new. It's different. It's rough. It's weird. That is the stuff that ultimately taps into something deeper in us. And I
[43:20] Designing AI to be Conversational and Engaging
🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (41:59 - 43:19)
✨ Summary
AI tools can flirt with users by anthropomorphizing and making conversations feel like talking to a human. While it adds pizzazz and interest, it's important to see AI as a tool, not a buddy. As AI models become more powerful, educating the public about their capabilities and limitations is crucial.
📚 Transcript
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Barack Obama
I have used some of these tools during the course of, you know, these conversations and this research. And, you know, it's fun.
Nilay Patel
Is Bing flirted with you yet? It flirts with everybody out here.
Barack Obama
Bing didn't flirt with me, but, you know, the way they're designed, and I've actually raised this with some of the designers. In some cases, they're designed to anthropomorphize, to make it feel like you are talking to a human, right? It's like, can we pass the Turing test, right? That's a specific objective because it makes it seem more magical. And in some cases, it improves function, but in some cases, it just makes it cooler. And so there's a little pizzazz there and people are interested. I have to tell you that generally speaking though, the way I think about AI is as a tool, not a buddy. And I think part of what we're going to need to do as these models get more powerful, and this is where I do think government can help is also just educating the public on what these models Can do and what they can't do. These are really powerful extensions of yourself and tools, but also reflections of yourself. And so don't get