Martha Beck on Reducing Anxiety and Fostering Self-Discovery

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 Martha Beck, a renowned life coach and author with three Harvard degrees, shares her fascinating insights on integrity and personal growth. She discusses her transformative year of living without lies, revealing the profound effects on her mental health. The conversation shifts to the importance of reconnecting with joy to heal from trauma and navigating personal boundaries for authentic relationships. With captivating anecdotes from her life and lessons learned from nature, Beck offers listeners powerful strategies for reducing anxiety and fostering self-discovery.

Episode notes

  1. Embrace uncertainty and trust your ability to navigate the journey, even when the final destination is unknown.
  2. Recognize the 'path of not here' as a crucial point in tracking, signifying a needed shift towards a new path for exploration and growth.
  3. Find beauty in existence even during difficult times, acknowledging the significance of embracing life despite challenges.
  4. Embrace the concept of 'don't know mind' to realize the endless possibilities of beginner's mind and avoid limiting oneself.
  5. Practice integrity cleanse by aligning your words with your beliefs, starting with small steps like a 'white belt' version to speak authentically.
  6. Prioritize honesty and openness in challenging situations, ensuring joyful and resolving conflicts through communication.
  7. Establish emotional landmarks through sensory experiences and explore non-verbal insights for personal growth and self-discovery.
  8. Transform through reparenting with books and apply transformative techniques to challenge fears and achieve enlightenment.
  9. Recognize the power of challenging thoughts to lead to enlightenment by questioning beliefs and exploring new authors and perspectives.
  10. Embrace self-trust over external approval to lead a fulfilling life aligned with personal values and authenticity.
  11. Acknowledge and embrace unique abilities to discover personal destiny and contribute to the evolution of society through diverse perspectives.
  12. Balance brain hemispheres for a new perspective and avoid overusing the left hemisphere by accessing the right hemisphere for creativity and joy.
  13. Shift from a controlling mindset to a curious one to manage fear responses effectively and foster creativity through engagement in various activities.
  14. Engage in creative outlets for fulfillment and alleviation of anxiety, utilizing different circuits in the brain and tapping into creativity.
  15. Respect and integrate different parts of oneself to solve problems effectively and achieve wholeness.
  16. Embrace anxiety with care and acceptance, creating a space for understanding and leading to personal growth and self-discovery.
  17. Acceptance of negative emotions leads to creativity, allowing for a shift from anxiety to personal growth and self-understanding.

Snips

[12:38] Embrace Uncertainty but Stay Focused

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (11:28 - 12:39)

✨ Summary

Embrace uncertainty and acknowledge that sometimes you may not know the final destination but trust your ability to navigate the journey. Learn from master storytellers like Boyd who emphasize the importance of knowing how to reach a destination even when the endpoint is unknown.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Tim Ferriss

One example.

Martha Beck

Psychopaths of any era, really.

Tim Ferriss

Of any era. And there are a few things that I took from Boyd just to continue to give a kind of hats off bow to Boyd, who is also one of the best storytellers I've ever heard in my life.

Martha Beck

He's magnificent. I think he might be the best storyteller in the world. Yeah.

Tim Ferriss

So for those who haven't heard my podcast with Boyd, I encourage you to check that out. There's a line from his book from The Line Tracker's Guide to Life, which has stuck with me ever since. And I think of it often, which is a line from Rennius, this master tracker who says, I don't know where we're going, but I know exactly how to get there. And I think that's resonated with a lot of people. There's another line which I'm less familiar with, but in the process of doing homework for this conversation, I came across this on your website, actually. And it's referencing Boyd. I know. We all have a lot on our websites.

Martha Beck

We're both obsessed with Boyd, and we just need to accept it.

Tim Ferriss

Yeah, exactly. We'll have to come up with a custody plan. So he has a name for the experience of getting lost, the path of not here. Now, I have not heard him say that. What does that mean, the path of not here?

Martha Beck

Well, we're out wandering around trying to track.

[13:17] Finding the Path of Not Here

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (11:48 - 13:24)

✨ Summary

Discovering the concept of the 'path of not here' as a significant point in tracking where being lost signifies the realization that one's current direction is not the desired destination, prompting a shift towards a new path for exploration and tracking, emphasizing the importance of this realization in redirecting one's journey.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Tim Ferriss

Those who haven't heard my podcast with Boyd, I encourage you to check that out. There's a line from his book from The Line Tracker's Guide to Life, which has stuck with me ever since. And I think of it often, which is a line from Rennius, this master tracker who says, I don't know where we're going, but I know exactly how to get there. And I think that's resonated with a lot of people. There's another line which I'm less familiar with, but in the process of doing homework for this conversation, I came across this on your website, actually. And it's referencing Boyd. I know. We all have a lot on our websites.

Martha Beck

We're both obsessed with Boyd, and we just need to accept it.

Tim Ferriss

Yeah, exactly. We'll have to come up with a custody plan. So he has a name for the experience of getting lost, the path of not here. Now, I have not heard him say that. What does that mean, the path of not here?

Martha Beck

Well, we're out wandering around trying to track. I remember once tracking a porcupine with Boyd and it was easy on the road because the quill drags are easy to see. And then the porcupine left the road and it was... Just scrub and rocks and everything. And I didn't know what he was looking at, but he kept walking. And I said, I haven't seen anything for a long time and I'm completely lost. And he said, no, you're never lost. What you're getting is the information that the place you are now and the way you're going isn't the way you want to end up. And that is an incredibly important place called the path of not here. And every time you realize you're in it, you have the option of shifting, of going somewhere else without recognizing that this is the path of not here.

[17:56] Finding Beauty in Existence

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (16:57 - 17:57)

✨ Summary

The insight revolves around finding beauty in existence despite facing difficult times and contemplating ending one's life. The speaker shares a personal experience of a depressive period and considering suicide, expressing surprise that there are people who haven't been in that dark place. The speaker reflects on a moment in the Lamont Library at Harvard where they contemplated the reason for sticking around, referencing Emerson's statement that beauty is its own excuse for being.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

So the first thing is for me, and I want to be delicate about this because people get worried when we talk about it, but I watched your TED Talk doing homework for this. I watched it again. And you start out very courageously in one of your TED Talks talking about being in a depressive period and thinking you might want to end your life. I was so surprised to hear that there are people who haven't been there. I just thought that was how you spend a Thursday. So I remember sitting in the Lamont Library at Harvard when I was 17. I call it the Lament Library because all these people had carved their woes into the Herald. It was a freshman library.

Tim Ferriss

Not surprising. Yeah, not surprising.

Martha Beck

And I was like, why stick around? We're all getting off the bus. We're all going to die, so why not get off the bus now? And I remember sitting there and thinking, the only possible reason for sticking around, and remembered Emerson's statement that beauty is its own excuse for being. And

[43:41] Embracing the concept of 'don't know mind'

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (41:56 - 43:45)

✨ Summary

The speaker shares a profound experience where they were bleeding internally due to scar tissue from childhood abuse. During surgery, the anesthesiologist had a strange intuition not to give more anesthesia, which was later confirmed to be correct. This led the speaker to embrace the concept of 'don't know mind', finding meaning in the idea that beginner's mind holds numerous possibilities while the expert's mind limits them, realizing that none of us truly know everything.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Yeah, the surgeon came in and was oddly tender with me. I mean, really, really tender. And I think the reason was that what had happened was I was bleeding internally from a lot of scar tissue that had happened when I was sexually abused very young. And they knew that some kind of violence must have caused that. So they said, yeah, we don't really understand why you suddenly started bleeding internally, but it was putting pressure and we just had to drain the wound and leave it open. And so that's what I said, do you know anything about the anesthesia? I went and got the anesthesiologist and he came back and I started just quizzing him. So what did you give me? What are the effects? What do people report? What are the side effects? Can I have some more? Finally, he just said, look, just tell me what happened in there because this thing happened to me. And that's when he told me about the voice telling him, don't give her more anesthesia. And I said, yeah, you did the right thing. And he said, you know how many times this has happened to me in 33 years of medical practice? I said, no. And he said, once. And then he kissed me on the forehead and left and wrote me a letter later about it. He said it was not a drug effect. Plus, he had a woo-woo experience as well. So, take that.

Tim Ferriss

Got it. So, what do you make of that experience?

Martha Beck

I have been making of it. You know, I started meditating and thinking about it, and I think about it every single day, and it's been many years since then. And what I make of it right now, first of all, I love, it's kind of like the path of not there, don't know mind. I believe in the Zen or any Buddhist concept of don't know mind that in the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind, there are few, and that none of us really Knows anything. And

[47:35] Integrity Cleanse and Radical Candor

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (46:05 - 47:32)

✨ Summary

The concept of integrity cleanse involves being aware of what you say and ensuring it aligns with your beliefs. A suggestion for those wanting to attempt an integrity cleanse is to start with a 'white belt' version by practicing for a smaller time period, like three days a week, and being conscious of speaking authentically. An anecdote from an article about radical candor illustrates the challenges of being brutally honest without consideration for the other person's feelings.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Tim Ferriss

Right. So yeah, I feel like you and I are probably going to have quite a few conversations.

Martha Beck

I hope so.

Tim Ferriss

On and off records. To be continued, I'm going to maybe just take a slight sidestep to integrity cleanse. If somebody wanted to do an integrity cleanse or attempt what you did, but with the lessons learned, maybe they are not willing to go kind of full throttle. How would you suggest they do that? Because most people listening, myself included, have never attempted something like this. And just as a quick humorous sidebar, I'll say if people want to read something very funny, there's an article, it's an old article from Esquire called, I Think You're Fat by a friend Of mine, AJ Jacobs. And it's about his experiments with radical candor. And his wife was like, how do I look at this? And he's like, I think you're fat. And you can imagine it didn't go super well. He learned a lot, but ultimately it was a pretty tough experiment. So what would you suggest to people? And what is an integrity cleanse? And what's the kind of like white belt, blue belt, black belt version, or however you would like to answer that?

Martha Beck

Let's do the white belt first. Take a smaller time period. I said a year. Take three days a week. And you don't have to say everything you think, but you do have to be aware when you're saying something that you don't believe. So,

[57:24] Speaking honestly about conflicting situations

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (55:59 - 57:26)

✨ Summary

In challenging situations, it is important to speak honestly and openly. A real-life example is shared about addressing a conflict with a friend over having the same speaking agent for joint events. Despite concerns about upsetting the friend, honesty prevailed, leading to a positive and understanding response. The key is to prioritize honesty and openness, ensuring that relationships are joyful and fun while resolving conflicts.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Tim Ferriss

You give an example of just what that looks like? Somebody comes to you and they're like, let's do A, or please do A. And you're like, ah, in your mind, body, I don't really want to do A. What might be an example? It could be made up.

Martha Beck

No, it doesn't have to be made up. I've been actually working this through. Have you interviewed Liz Gilbert? I have.

Tim Ferriss

Yeah, it's been a few years. We're going to talk again. She's so much fun.

Martha Beck

Anyway, we've been trying to figure out how to do live events and our schedules haven't jived very much. And we had the same speaking agent and there was some conflict over that. And I finally had to just go to her and say, I don't think it works for us to have the same speaking agent when we go and we're creating events together. And it was kind of hard to say that because we both really love this agent, but Liz and she are really, really close. So I thought it might upset her. And maybe it did, but the fact is it was true. And so she didn't bat an eye. She just said, whatever makes it more fun and gives us more ease when we're together. Great. We want our friendship to be as much fun, as joyful as it can be. So that was the track. And it was a little awkward, but it worked.

Tim Ferriss

Last time, I won't beat this dead horse any further, but any other language that you find helpful? For people who have trouble saying no, is there any starter language where you're like, try this on for size?

Martha Beck

For some reason, when you said any other language, I literally thought of Chinese.

[01:20:06] Emotional Landmarks and Non-verbal Experiences

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:18:43 - 01:20:10)

✨ Summary

Establishing emotional landmarks through sensory experiences can serve as a homing direction, guiding one towards a specific path. Non-verbal experiences, which cannot be described in words, can fulfill one's yearning and lead to profound insights. The unique human ability to create terrifying realities in our minds through language is linked to the phenomenon of suicide, which is not observed in other animal species.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Tim Ferriss

Jumping the tracks, does that refer to doing this exercise as an example, establishing this like emotional landmark? Like, okay, remember this feeling you're in the sauna, the snow cat peaks, the dog, the, this, the, that, remember this. And this is now your sort of homing direction from a sensory perspective.

Martha Beck

It's a track. Yeah. And it may just be the side of the rhinoceros' toe. It's very likely. You've been on the path of not there for so long, you don't know what the real... For me, that white light thing was the whole track. Bam! I could not miss it after that experience. But what you just did is an experience of moving into that territory and seeing sort of, you feel the shape of it or that I end up having difficulty describing it in words because it's not A verbal experience. And the fact that it's not a verbal experience is part of the reason it can fulfill your yearning. And it's also part of the reason you've never gone there. Stephen Hayes, who founded ACT Therapy, he set out to figure out why humans commit suicide and no other animal seems to deliberately do that. And his answer is language. We're the only species that can create a reality with words in our minds that is so terrifying that an unknown future is worse than the fear of death. If

[01:24:06] Transformation through Reparenting with Books

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (01:22:31 - 01:24:08)

✨ Summary

The speaker describes how reading a specific book by Stephen Mitchell during a transformative period had a profound impact on them. The book ignited intense energy within the speaker, leading them to a physical exploration that mirrored the emotional intensity. This connection to the book was overwhelming, prompting the speaker to share it widely and deeply memorize its content. The speaker's journey with books continued as they discovered a work by Byron Katie, initially drawn to it through Mitchell's involvement. This book introduced the speaker to a simple yet powerful technique of questioning thoughts, which they applied and found transformative.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Of the concept of having parents, I mean, they're friends more than parents, but I really do feel like they've kind of reparented me with their books. I read Stephen's version of The Tao Te Ching right around the time I had the white light experience. That's when it was first published. And it was such an intense, it was like my nervous system caught fire when I read that version. And I'd read other versions and they weren't, they didn't float my boat as much, but there was so much energy in my body that I felt like I was going to literally physically explode. And I drove to a place where I knew I could hike to a waterfall.

Tim Ferriss

Oh, they're going to say safely explode.

Martha Beck

I literally ran along this mountain path to this large-ish waterfall, ran under the waterfall and just stood there. And then the cold water beating down on me equaled the sort of heat that was rising. I mean, my connection to that book was so overwhelming, and I know it's been powerful for a lot of people. So I memorized it, took it around, gave it to everyone I knew. Then I was on a book tour, and I saw this book by a woman named Byron Katie, and it said, with a foreword by Stephen Mitchell. Never would have looked at it if I hadn't seen that. And then I found out on the leaf, on the book leaf that they were married. And I was like, wow, okay, now I'm interested. So I bought the book, got on a plane, read the book. And she had a series of four questions, which are very simple. Think of a thought that makes you upset. Is it true? Can you know that it's true? What happens when you think it? Who would you be without it? It seemed very, very simple. And I applied it.

[01:24:36] The Power of Challenging Thoughts

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:23:08 - 01:24:34)

✨ Summary

Challenging and reversing thoughts that cause suffering can lead to enlightenment. By asking simple questions like 'Is it true?' and 'Who would you be without it?' individuals can change their perspective and find peace. Discovering new authors and their transformative work can significantly impact one's life and beliefs, leading to personal growth and a deeper understanding of oneself.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Ran along this mountain path to this large-ish waterfall, ran under the waterfall and just stood there. And then the cold water beating down on me equaled the sort of heat that was rising. I mean, my connection to that book was so overwhelming, and I know it's been powerful for a lot of people. So I memorized it, took it around, gave it to everyone I knew. Then I was on a book tour, and I saw this book by a woman named Byron Katie, and it said, with a foreword by Stephen Mitchell. Never would have looked at it if I hadn't seen that. And then I found out on the leaf, on the book leaf that they were married. And I was like, wow, okay, now I'm interested. So I bought the book, got on a plane, read the book. And she had a series of four questions, which are very simple. Think of a thought that makes you upset. Is it true? Can you know that it's true? What happens when you think it? Who would you be without it? It seemed very, very simple. And I applied it. I started applying it. And there on the plane, I had an injury on my knee. And my thought was, I'm mad at my knee because it won't let me work out. And Katie has this way of reversing everything that's causing you suffering. After reading her stuff and doing her work forever, I actually believe that the direct verbal opposite of your worst fear is your next step toward enlightenment. I truly believe that.

Tim Ferriss

Okay, can you say that one

[01:24:58] Finding Enlightenment through Challenging Fears

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (01:23:08 - 01:25:00)

✨ Summary

Challenging and reversing thoughts that cause suffering with simple questions from Byron Katie's work can lead one towards enlightenment. The direct verbal opposite of one's worst fear is believed to be the next step towards enlightenment by practicing this technique and following the work of Byron Katie available for free online.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Ran along this mountain path to this large-ish waterfall, ran under the waterfall and just stood there. And then the cold water beating down on me equaled the sort of heat that was rising. I mean, my connection to that book was so overwhelming, and I know it's been powerful for a lot of people. So I memorized it, took it around, gave it to everyone I knew. Then I was on a book tour, and I saw this book by a woman named Byron Katie, and it said, with a foreword by Stephen Mitchell. Never would have looked at it if I hadn't seen that. And then I found out on the leaf, on the book leaf that they were married. And I was like, wow, okay, now I'm interested. So I bought the book, got on a plane, read the book. And she had a series of four questions, which are very simple. Think of a thought that makes you upset. Is it true? Can you know that it's true? What happens when you think it? Who would you be without it? It seemed very, very simple. And I applied it. I started applying it. And there on the plane, I had an injury on my knee. And my thought was, I'm mad at my knee because it won't let me work out. And Katie has this way of reversing everything that's causing you suffering. After reading her stuff and doing her work forever, I actually believe that the direct verbal opposite of your worst fear is your next step toward enlightenment. I truly believe that.

Tim Ferriss

Okay, can you say that one more time? So I have some familiarity with her workshops and worksheets. And just for people who want to find this, they can find The Work by Byron Katie online.

Martha Beck

Yeah, of Byron Katie. And you can go online and download free things. And she's very generous with it.

Tim Ferriss

Could you say that one more time? Because this seems like an important part.

Martha Beck

It will sound odd if you haven't been doing the work for a long time. But this is what I've realized. The exact verbal opposite of my worst fear. So

[01:28:57] Love in All Its Forms

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (01:27:20 - 01:28:59)

✨ Summary

A couple found a deep, profound love for each other, life, and the world. Their connection was unique and strong, transcending age and encompassing the beauty and challenges of existence. Despite facing different versions of future possibilities, the one where something terrible happens due to a book resonated the most, though there were other options explored, some of which felt incorrect.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Went to Barstow and Katie was thinking, why does he want to go to Barstow? You know, and they sat in a hotel. I believe they sat on the floor, knee to knee, and they looked into each other's eyes without speaking for an hour. And then they got married. That's not quite right. But he said to Katie, I've got to go back to New York now. And she just said, why would you go back to New York? He said, because I live there. And she was like, so? And he said, well, I have to go deal with my affairs. And she said, but you're the only person I've ever met who's of my species. And they talk about two kids in love in their 80s. They are in love with life, in love with each other, in love with the world, in love with death itself, in love with everything. And their work has just mothered and fathered me through my life. And they've done it themselves as people now, so I love them dearly.

Tim Ferriss

I encourage people to check out the work for sure. And I have a, I guess, technical question about the opposite that you landed on. So I am going to happen to something terrible because of my book. Is that an example of a turnaround? And could you have ended up on a different version? For instance, something wonderful is going to happen to me because of my book or some alternate. There could have been a number of varieties. Did that happen to be the one that of several resonated with you?

Martha Beck

Yeah, that was the one that really hit the gong in my mind, but I did have several. And very often you can come up with a bunch of them. And some of them are just plain wrong. They don't feel right at all. Some

[01:34:38] Embrace Self-Trust over External Approval

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:33:19 - 01:34:43)

✨ Summary

The importance of self-trust and following one's soul over seeking admiration and approval from others is highlighted through the concept of the Faustian bargain. This idea signifies the choice between staying true to oneself or conforming to societal expectations, emphasizing the significance of trusting oneself to lead a fulfilling life.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Tim Ferriss

Let's chat about another great for a second. Goethe. So the German writer, innovator, polymath of every possible variety. I'm wondering why, what you find most striking about Goethe. There are a couple of quotes that popped up that I think may resonate with you, that I think you've mentioned in conversations before. But when you trust yourself, you will know how to live. That's one. Another, never hurry, never cease. That's one I've heard permutations of in Buddhism as well, right? No hurry, no pause, all these things, which I quite like. Any others that come to mind or any aspects?

Martha Beck

From Goethe himself?

Tim Ferriss

Or anything, I mean, that doesn't need to be specifically. We can meander as we want to meander.

Martha Beck

I love the stuff about self-trust. I'm blanking, actually, which I rarely do. All I can think about is Faust now and how he talks about the bargain with the devil. I think we all make a bargain with the devil metaphorically, because we're forced to confront the question, will we do what it takes to be admired and approved of by humans? Or will we follow the soul? Will we trust ourselves or will we trust what other people want us to be? So the Faustian bargain is the only thing that's really coming to mind right now. Is Greta a particular favorite of yours? I

[01:42:26] Avoiding Overmedication and Understanding Destiny

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (01:41:00 - 01:42:30)

✨ Summary

The speaker expresses gratitude for not being part of a generation where over prescribing medication for undiagnosed conditions was common. They reflect on how they would have been excessively medicated if they were born in a different era due to their hyperactive and rambunctious nature. The speaker acknowledges the importance of medication but believes they would have been given too many pharmaceuticals. They mention not being diagnosed with any specific word themselves, but upon their child self-identifying as autistic, they understood that they could have had autism. The speaker believes in destiny and compares individual destinies to climbing Everest or diving into the mariana trench, emphasizing the need for different tools for different missions.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Tim Ferriss

And I'm grateful in the sense that I was not of a generation where, say, overprescription was common or even really existent for things that didn't have labels, constellations of symptoms Or characteristics that didn't have labels until later, because I for sure would have been medicated to the gills. And I'm not saying there is a place for medication, but I would have been given everything under the sun. I mean, I was hyperactive, rambunctious, bouncing all over the place, refused to learn the alphabet for a while. And then I was stupid, and then I was going to be held back.. I mean, I would have been just saturated with pharmaceuticals. So no, I haven't been given, I have not been given a word. Is there a good word that comes to mind?

Martha Beck

I don't know. I mean, my oldest child just self-identified as autistic. So I went in and looked at all the symptoms and I'm like, oh, that's what's been wrong with me this whole time. I truly believe, I believe this thing about destiny. And I remember thinking even as a child, if my destiny is to go to the top of, climb to the top of Everest and someone else's destiny is dive to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the equipment That I need would actually make them unable to fulfill their mission. Like if I'm climbing, that would not be good in diving. And I couldn't haul an aquatic set of tools up Everest. So I thought, all right, there are things I wish I could do that I can't. And things I can do, I

[01:43:15] Embrace Your Unique Abilities

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:41:51 - 01:43:19)

✨ Summary

Discovering one's own unique abilities and embracing them can provide insights into personal destiny. Embracing neurodiversity and recognizing the value of diverse perspectives can contribute greatly to the evolution of society and culture. Acknowledging one's strengths and limitations can lead to a fulfilling life path, different from the conventional norms and expectations.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Don't know. I mean, my oldest child just self-identified as autistic. So I went in and looked at all the symptoms and I'm like, oh, that's what's been wrong with me this whole time. I truly believe, I believe this thing about destiny. And I remember thinking even as a child, if my destiny is to go to the top of, climb to the top of Everest and someone else's destiny is dive to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the equipment That I need would actually make them unable to fulfill their mission. Like if I'm climbing, that would not be good in diving. And I couldn't haul an aquatic set of tools up Everest. So I thought, all right, there are things I wish I could do that I can't. And things I can do, I don't know. I just can't do them. And it's really easy for me and weirdly easy. And I just thought, well, this must be in some way a description of what I'm meant to do with my life. I remember thinking that when I was eight or nine years old, and I look at you, and you've done so many things that, what do you do if you're good at dancing? You become a champion. Yay, you can do that. But your brain is so different, and I hope they never medicate it unless it's something that makes you happier. But I am really curious about your brain because it's clearly, I actually think the future of our species depends on people who are neurodivergent in ways that make them unable to fit The culture that Western colonizers created, the weird cultures, right? And

[01:46:31] Balancing brain hemispheres for a new perspective

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:45:16 - 01:46:32)

✨ Summary

The speaker noticed a surge in anxiety among clients during the pandemic. They befriended a neuroanatomist who had a stroke, losing language and analytical cognition from the left hemisphere. Despite taking eight years to rebuild her brain, her new experience of joy and awe without barriers between objects prompted her realization of the overuse of the left hemisphere. The neuroanatomist advocates for accessing the right hemisphere to change perspectives, which intrigued the speaker who has a keen interest in brain science.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Came to this conclusion, I was noticing this huge spike in all my clients of anxiety, and I was reading about this massive, mostly in the pandemic, but anxiety just went bananas and it Didn't come down and things eased a little bit. And at the same time, I got to be friends with Jill Bolte-Taylor, the woman who had the left hemisphere stroke when she was a Harvard neuroanatomist. It was the first TED Talk to go viral. And she lost all language and analytical cognition while her left hemisphere was offline. It took her eight years to rebuild her brain, but she experienced things with only the right hemisphere that she'd never experienced before, this incredible joy, bliss, awe, the feeling Of being completely a field of energy, no barriers between physical objects. It was a very different view of the world. If she hadn't been a neuroanatomist, she probably would be sitting in a vegetating somewhere. But fortunately, she was among people who knew how to help her rebuild. So now she goes around telling people, we're overusing the left hemispheres of our brains. We need to be able to access the right. And so I'd been talking to her about this endlessly. I love talking to her. And I was reading a lot of brain science, always have, always will. And

[01:49:10] The Power of Perception and Language on Fear Response

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:47:53 - 01:49:11)

✨ Summary

Perception and language play a crucial role in the fear response. The left hemisphere of the brain tends to control fear by creating verbal stories, which can intensify the emotional response by feeding back into the amygdala. This feedback loop can make imagined fears feel as real as actual threats. The left hemisphere often disregards the perspective of the right hemisphere, leading to an inability to acknowledge different viewpoints. In contrast, the right hemisphere, when in control, can foster curiosity instead of anxiety when faced with fear. Therefore, shifting from a controlling mindset to a curious one can be instrumental in managing fear responses effectively.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

And then immediately the brain starts to, the left hemisphere starts to try to control whatever's going wrong, whatever makes you afraid, and telling verbal stories about it. Problem is the verbal stories that you tell feed back into the amygdala as environmental realities. So if I'm afraid something's going to jump at me from the dark, it's as if something really is going to jump at me from the dark. So when I say I may have a fatal illness, there's no evidence, but I can literally go into a panic over that because of language. The left hemisphere is also unable or unwilling to acknowledge that the right hemisphere's perspective exists at all. Like if people have a right hemisphere stroke and they're only in the left hemisphere and you tell them to draw a clock, they'll draw the side of the clock from 12 to 6 and they'll say, that's Finished. And there's nothing wrong with their eyes. They will not acknowledge anything the right brain is observing. When Jill only had her right brain, zero anxiety, zero time, zero physical reality, really. On the right side, the amygdala is afraid, ah, but it starts to get curious. So you said something about curiosity really early on in this interview, and I was like, that's the trick. Because if something scares you, if you go to control, you're in anxiety. If

[01:50:19] Curiosity Over Anxiety: Boosting Creativity

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:49:01 - 01:50:20)

✨ Summary

Shifting from anxiety to curiosity opens up the mind to creativity by eliminating preconceived assumptions. When engaging with activities that stimulate the right hemisphere of the brain, anxiety is naturally suppressed, allowing creativity to flourish. The speaker believes that anxiety stifles creativity while fostering curiosity can lead to a significant creative breakthrough. Through personal experimentation and a lack of direct studies, it is suggested that the link between creativity and anxiety is undeniable. The speaker advocates for exercises that challenge the brain, such as writing one's own name in a non-dominant hand, to enhance cognitive processes and creativity.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

You said something about curiosity really early on in this interview, and I was like, that's the trick. Because if something scares you, if you go to control, you're in anxiety. If you go to curiosity, my mind is open, I have no assumptions, and I want to know what this is about. Instead of anxiety, you get creativity. So it depends which side, and one side shuts off the other. So it toggles. So when I asked you to talk about these things that you were sent, the things you love with all five senses, you had to go into the right hemisphere of the brain, and it had to shut down the Part of the brain that produces anxiety. That's just the machinery. So my premise was anxiety kills creativity. Maybe creativity kills anxiety. So I started designing things to test that and it tests amazingly well. Even though I haven't seen any direct studies on it yet, if you put together the science around it, it's kind of an unavoidable conclusion. And when I try it myself, oh my God, the results are ridiculously powerful.

Tim Ferriss

What types of exercises do you do for yourself?

Martha Beck

Oh, for example, if you were to write your name, Tim. That's cheating because it's short, Tim Ferriss. Are you right-handed? I'm right-handed.

Tim Ferriss

So

[01:52:45] Exploring Different Creative Outlets for Fulfillment

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:51:44 - 01:52:44)

✨ Summary

Engaging in various creative activities like painting and illustration can provide a sense of bliss and fulfillment, offering a different type of awareness and utilizing unique circuitry. It is not about being good, but about the process itself, allowing one to tap into different patterns and circuits in the brain.

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Martha Beck

Didn't want to sleep. I didn't want to eat. I didn't want to talk to anyone. I just, I was in pure heaven. And the problem was at the end of the month, stopping was horrible. It was like some kind of suicide right there. And now since I finished, I had to get back into my left hemisphere to write the book about it. But as soon as I sent the manuscript away, I just started painting. I get up every morning at like between 4 and 6 and paint until 11. And I'm just like completely blissed out.

Tim Ferriss

Yeah. I find drawing to be a real self. And I wanted to be an illustrator for a long time when I was a kid. And paid some of my expenses in college by being an illustrator. Actually, I illustrated a few books. I did that too. Long time ago. And getting back into that, even just going to, you do not need to be good. It's not about being good. It's about using different circuitry, patterning, a different type of awareness. There are many different ways you could frame it.

[01:56:28] Engage in Creative Activities to Alleviate Anxiety

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (01:54:56 - 01:56:29)

✨ Summary

Engaging in creative activities helps to alleviate anxiety as it shifts focus from worry to creation. Watching inspiring speeches like Neil Gaiman's commencement speech can reinforce the idea. Websites offering gesture poses can also be used at home to mimic a class setting. Participating in a class not only offers diversity and motion but also engages the right hemisphere of the brain, which is often overlooked in a culture that overemphasizes left hemisphere functions.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Can't stay anxious if you're making something.

Tim Ferriss

Yeah, for sure. So two quick comments. The first is for people who want a great reinforcement of this, Make Good Art, a commencement speech by Neil Gaiman is unbelievably good. And watch the actual delivery. Watch the video because his mellifluous, dulcet tones add so much to it. His delivery is so good. And then the second thing I would say is for those people who are like, what, how am I going to find a naked person in a class and this, that, the other thing. There are websites and we'll put some in the show notes where you have effectively gesture poses that change and you can set the duration. So you can mimic this at home. You don't need to do a class, but the class has so much more to it. You're doing it with other people. You're probably standing. You're actually moving your body and getting away from staring at something 18 inches at a fixed location in front of your face. There's so much more to it.

Martha Beck

What you just described is the way the right hemisphere moves with people in motion with the body versus the left hemisphere moves fixed, rigid, in space, got to get this right. And there's just, there's an overemphasis in our entire culture, again, an oversimplification, but there's a huge overemphasis on left hemisphere functions to the point where this, I just, I love this guy, Ian McGill Crist at Oxford. He says the whole culture functions like someone with the right hemisphere stroke. Like we've lost half our brain. And

[02:00:24] Respecting and integrating different parts of oneself

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:59:00 - 02:00:27)

✨ Summary

Individuals consist of different parts with unique identities and experiences. By acknowledging and respecting each part, they can integrate and work together to solve problems effectively. The Byron Katie work emphasizes the importance of addressing all parts to achieve a sense of wholeness and resolve issues causing distress in life.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

Not a shift in identity. It's not multiple personalities or anything like that. It's just that we all know we have parts. There's a part of us that loves to go out dancing and a part that likes to stay home and go to sleep. There's a part that feels little. There's a part that feels strong, whatever. So the thing is, the Byron Katie work, for example, if you do it, but only one part of you does it, there may be another part that is just not down with it. And that part needs to have its experience. What Dick found was that the parts have their own unique and whole identities. And if you respect them, they come together and they start to integrate with each other and solve the problems that make your life miserable. And it works really, really well.

Tim Ferriss

Do you use that with clients?

Martha Beck

Yeah, I'm not trained, but he's also very generous with his theory. And there are books out there. One is called Self Therapy by Jay Early, with little illustrations and everything to tell you how to use it. And the biggest thing I've found, especially to relate to anxiety, so there's a part of you that gets anxious and depressed, yeah? Or maybe there are two different parts, one anxious, one depressed, I don't know. So when you think about your anxiety or your depression or your insomnia, how do you think about it? Like, what are the thoughts you think?

Tim Ferriss

What are the thoughts I think? Yeah, when you're thinking about insomnia. Yeah,

[02:03:40] Embracing Anxiety with Care and Acceptance

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (02:02:35 - 02:03:40)

✨ Summary

By accepting anxiety with care and asking it to stay, one can create a space for understanding and acceptance. This approach allows room for creativity to emerge, as it fosters a compassionate connection with one's fears and worries, paving the way for growth and self-discovery.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

So it ups the ante and all it knows how to do is keep you awake and make you depressed. So it starts to spiral upwards. I had this huge breakthrough when I was meditating. And sometimes when I have a negative thing that won't seem to leave, I just use a little let go, let go mantra. And it wasn't letting go. And I thought, okay, how would Byron Katie do this? And I said, let's stay. So I said to my anxiety at the time, stay. Don't go anywhere. Please come and sit down. Stay here. I want you exactly the way you are. I accept you exactly the way you are. I want you with me. I care about you. I care about your welfare. I want to know all about you. I want to know everything about you. Come sit by the fire with me. And in a way, it's what I do with every client. It's what I did with Boyd when we were getting to know each other. Sit by the fire with me and tell me your worst fears, your worst stories, because I have room enough in my heart for all of them. If you don't

[02:04:22] Acceptance Leads to Creativity

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (02:02:35 - 02:04:23)

✨ Summary

Embracing negative emotions with acceptance and compassion, and allowing them to 'sit by the fire' within you, leads to a shift from anxiety to creativity. Starting with acceptance and kindness towards oneself opens the door to creativity and a release from negative patterns like insomnia. This approach helps in making space for all emotions, paving the way for personal growth and self-understanding.

πŸ“š Transcript

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Martha Beck

So it ups the ante and all it knows how to do is keep you awake and make you depressed. So it starts to spiral upwards. I had this huge breakthrough when I was meditating. And sometimes when I have a negative thing that won't seem to leave, I just use a little let go, let go mantra. And it wasn't letting go. And I thought, okay, how would Byron Katie do this? And I said, let's stay. So I said to my anxiety at the time, stay. Don't go anywhere. Please come and sit down. Stay here. I want you exactly the way you are. I accept you exactly the way you are. I want you with me. I care about you. I care about your welfare. I want to know all about you. I want to know everything about you. Come sit by the fire with me. And in a way, it's what I do with every client. It's what I did with Boyd when we were getting to know each other. Sit by the fire with me and tell me your worst fears, your worst stories, because I have room enough in my heart for all of them. If you don't start with acceptance and compassion and simple kindness toward the self, toward the parts of the self that are doing the things you can't stand. And that was a really dramatic shift for me in my insomnia, for one thing, but in all the negatives when I started saying, stay.

Tim Ferriss

I love that. You know what it also makes me think? Man, oh man, is it time for me to go back and reread Radical Acceptance by Tara Brock? Yeah, that's a great book. Probably. It's probably time for me to get back on that horse too. I love that. Out of left field, do you have a favorite animal? Is

Highlights

  1. Embrace uncertainty and trust your ability to navigate the journey, even when the final destination is unknown.
  2. Recognize the 'path of not here' as a crucial point in tracking, signifying a needed shift towards a new path for exploration and growth.
  3. Find beauty in existence even during difficult times, acknowledging the significance of embracing life despite challenges.
  4. Embrace the concept of 'don't know mind' to realize the endless possibilities of beginner's mind and avoid limiting oneself.
  5. Practice integrity cleanse by aligning your words with your beliefs, starting with small steps like a 'white belt' version to speak authentically.
  6. Prioritize honesty and openness in challenging situations, ensuring joyful and resolving conflicts through communication.
  7. Establish emotional landmarks through sensory experiences and explore non-verbal insights for personal growth and self-discovery.
  8. Transform through reparenting with books and apply transformative techniques to challenge fears and achieve enlightenment.
  9. Recognize the power of challenging thoughts to lead to enlightenment by questioning beliefs and exploring new authors and perspectives.
  10. Embrace self-trust over external approval to lead a fulfilling life aligned with personal values and authenticity.
  11. Acknowledge and embrace unique abilities to discover personal destiny and contribute to the evolution of society through diverse perspectives.
  12. Balance brain hemispheres for a new perspective and avoid overusing the left hemisphere by accessing the right hemisphere for creativity and joy.
  13. Shift from a controlling mindset to a curious one to manage fear responses effectively and foster creativity through engagement in various activities.
  14. Engage in creative outlets for fulfillment and alleviation of anxiety, utilizing different circuits in the brain and tapping into creativity.
  15. Respect and integrate different parts of oneself to solve problems effectively and achieve wholeness.
  16. Embrace anxiety with care and acceptance, creating a space for understanding and leading to personal growth and self-discovery.
  17. Acceptance of negative emotions leads to creativity, allowing for a shift from anxiety to personal growth and self-understanding. Time 0:00:00