Sheila Heen on Giving and Receiving Feedback

The Tim Ferriss Show with Tim Ferriss - Podcast Index
 
 Sheila Heen, founder of Triad Consulting Group and Harvard Law School professor, shares her expertise on navigating difficult conversations and the art of feedback. She outlines strategies for giving and receiving feedback effectively, emphasizing empathy and emotional awareness. With insights drawn from her work with top organizations like Pixar and the Obama White House, Sheila discusses the complexities of communication and how personal experiences shape our responses. A deep dive into the mutual responsibilities in feedback dynamics makes this conversation both enlightening and practical.

Highlights

• The Importance of Difficult Conversations in Relationships
  Key takeaways:
  • The speaker emphasizes the importance of reviewing past conversations before engaging in a new one.
  • A particular line stood out to the speaker and their team from the last conversation.
  • Difficult conversations are not just a part of important relationships, but they actually define and steer the relationships.
  • The speaker emphasizes the impact of handling difficult conversations and situations in one's most important relationships.
  Transcript:
  Speaker 1
  When my team and I reviewed the last conversation we had, which I always do before a conversation like this, so went through the entire round one. There was a line that stood out for all of us and it might be a paraphrase. You can feel free to fact check this. Yeah, yeah.
  Speaker 2
  I can't wait to hear what you're about to say.
  Speaker 1
  I quote, it's not just that we have difficult conversations in our most important relationships. Those conversations are the relationship. And I've been thinking about this a lot in the sense that it seems like our most important relationships are defined and steered in large part by how we handle the difficult conversations, How we handle things when we are perhaps not our best selves. Time 0:07:02

• The Importance of Difficult Conversations in Relationships and How to Handle Feedback
  Key takeaways:
  • Difficult conversations are not just a part of important relationships, they define the relationship.
  • Handling difficult conversations shapes the quality of a relationship.
  • Feedback should be approached with an understanding mindset rather than immediately looking for flaws.
  • Asking for more information about the feedback's origin or impact can deepen understanding.
  Transcript:
  Speaker 1
  I quote, it's not just that we have difficult conversations in our most important relationships. Those conversations are the relationship. And I've been thinking about this a lot in the sense that it seems like our most important relationships are defined and steered in large part by how we handle the difficult conversations, How we handle things when we are perhaps not our best selves. And to that extent, they are what define a good or a bad relationship. So I just wanted to share that because it's stuck out for everyone who reviewed the last conversation that we had on the side of my team. How should we talk about, because we did discuss a lot surrounding difficult conversations and we will edge into a lot of shared territory, but how should we talk about feedback?
  Speaker 2
  For me, when feedback is incoming, part of what I'm doing is scanning for what's wrong with it.
  Speaker 3
  We can circle back to this question because there's a great set of things that are typically wrong with feedback, at least that other people give me. So it's a shift from, I have to decide whether I agree or disagree and what's wrong with it.
  Speaker 2
  Before I decide, let me just understand it. Let me just understand what they're trying to say. So if we go to what language does that, suggest you can ask questions in one of two directions. Feedback always has a past and a future. So you can either ask more about where it's coming from, say more about what you heard me say, or can you give me an example of that, or tell me more about the impact that that had in the exchange? Time 0:07:22

• Scanning for what's wrong and asking curiosity-forward questions in feedback
  Key takeaways:
  • When receiving feedback, it is important to focus on understanding it before deciding whether to agree or disagree with it.
  • There are two directions to ask questions in when seeking clarification about feedback: the past and the future.
  • Curiosity about the motivations and observations behind feedback can be explored by asking questions about where it is coming from and the impact it had.
  • Forward-looking questions can help determine the suggested actions or changes that feedback implies.
  • When feeling defensive, asking questions about the future implications of the feedback may be easier.
  Transcript:
  Speaker 2
  For me, when feedback is incoming, part of what I'm doing is scanning for what's wrong with it.
  Speaker 3
  We can circle back to this question because there's a great set of things that are typically wrong with feedback, at least that other people give me. So it's a shift from, I have to decide whether I agree or disagree and what's wrong with it.
  Speaker 2
  Before I decide, let me just understand it. Let me just understand what they're trying to say. So if we go to what language does that, suggest you can ask questions in one of two directions. Feedback always has a past and a future. So you can either ask more about where it's coming from, say more about what you heard me say, or can you give me an example of that, or tell me more about the impact that that had in the exchange?
  Speaker 3
  So you're asking questions of curiosity about what is it that you noticed that is prompting you to say this to me. The other direction that you can ask questions in is forward-looking. Where is it going to? If I were to take your advice, what would I do differently? What specifically are you suggesting or requesting?
  Speaker 2
  If I'm feeling particularly defensive, that second set of questions is sometimes easier. Time 0:08:14

• De-escalation and self-talk techniques for maintaining composure in a conversation
  Summary:
  Identify and name the surprise or unexpected feelings, then move to a question such as 'What do you feel like I don't get?' to quickly understand the other person's perspective and de-escalate the situation.
  Transcript:
  Speaker 1
  Any thoughts for either how to deescalate or self talk that you can use so that the person on the receiving end is able to kind of reply in a calm, cool and collected fashion?
  Speaker 3
  It could be that calm, cool and collected is more aspirational than realistic.
  Speaker 2
  And one thing that can help is just to name the surprise, or the this just came out of left field. I'm totally knocked off my center. So just saying, wow, okay, sorry, this is coming out of left field. So I'm just kind of on my back foot.
  Speaker 3
  So that you're just naming where you're at in this moment. And sometimes just naming it can help you find your feet again, because you're like, okay, I've just accurately described where I'm at.
  Speaker 2
  I can be in that space. And now they know I'm in that space, or just saying, okay, I'm feeling a little defensive. And then you can move to a question, a question that I've been using recently that has helped just quickly get to the heart of what's going on is what do you feel like I don't get? What is it that you feel I really don't get about? Time 0:11:19

• Differentiating between appreciation and coaching feedback
  Summary:
  The speaker shared an experience where he asked for feedback on his work, expecting a vivisection, but received encouragement instead.
  He highlighted the importance of recognizing when someone needs appreciation rather than coaching and evaluation. He suggested being clear about what kind of feedback is needed and not always trusting the recipient's answer.
  Additionally, the speaker emphasized that in the early stages of a creative work, encouragement may be more valuable than specific coaching due to the need for further development before detailed feedback is beneficial.
  Transcript:
  Speaker 1
  I asked him to just vivisect my work. And his response was, basically, I've read it, I want to read more, just keep going. And what I gleaned from that was that he said, that's great kid. I recognize that you want me to tear this apart. And that's not what you need right now. So I'm actually going to give you the appreciation, not the coaching and evaluation. I'm going to give you like the pat on the back and the kick in the ass just to keep going because actually that's what you need right now. And he was right. Of course, I'm speculating a lot about his inner experience. But that's I think the intention behind the feedback that he gave me. So how do people take this framework, the three kinds of feedback, and put it into practice, I suppose? What are some ways that people might think about carrying that into their day? They listen to this, they carry it into their day or their week.
  Speaker 3
  One thing that helps is just to be clearer about what you're short on right now, or what you're asking someone for. Or if you're being asked to give feedback, to ask them and maybe not trust their answer. What I hear him saying is implicitly of we're speculating.
  Speaker 2
  Maybe I think what you just need is the encouragement to keep going right now.
  Speaker 3
  He could also be thinking in the early stages of any fiction, there are 100 things wrong with it. You don't figure out what they are until you're further down the road and you are coming back and revising. So you're just not at the stage that's a good match for specific coaching. Time 0:44:29

• Importance of Clear Communication in Feedback and Different Types of Feedback
  Summary:
  Clear communication is crucial when asking for or providing feedback, as it helps in understanding what is needed at the moment.
  It is important to differentiate between coaching and evaluation when providing feedback, as they serve different purposes. Encouragement and perseverance can be essential in the early stages of any project, as it takes time to identify and address its flaws.
  Different types of feedback include appreciation, coaching, and evaluation, and all three are necessary in different contexts.
  Transcript:
  Speaker 1
  They listen to this, they carry it into their day or their week.
  Speaker 3
  One thing that helps is just to be clearer about what you're short on right now, or what you're asking someone for. Or if you're being asked to give feedback, to ask them and maybe not trust their answer. What I hear him saying is implicitly of we're speculating.
  Speaker 2
  Maybe I think what you just need is the encouragement to keep going right now.
  Speaker 3
  He could also be thinking in the early stages of any fiction, there are 100 things wrong with it. You don't figure out what they are until you're further down the road and you are coming back and revising. So you're just not at the stage that's a good match for specific coaching.
  Speaker 2
  Because you just need to keep going. Once you see where this arc goes, you'll back up and see and figure out what needs to change. Who knows? He's got some philosophy in his own head. In terms of getting specific about things you can do with this framework of types of feedback, they have different purposes. Easy way to remember them is ACE, A-C-E, appreciation, coaching and evaluation.
  Speaker 3
  We need all three.
  Speaker 1
  Can you just perhaps spend a little more time differentiating between coaching and evaluation? Time 0:45:24