Sheila Heen on How to Master the Difficult Art of Receiving (and Giving) Feedback

Sheila Heen

My team and I reviewed the last conversation we had, which I always do before a conversation like this. So went through the entire round one and there was a line that stood out for all of us. And it might be a paraphrase. You can feel free to fact check this. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Ferriss

Oh, I can't wait to hear what you're about to say.

Sheila Heen

Quote, it's not just that we have difficult conversations in our most important relationships. Those conversations are the relationship. And I've been thinking about this a lot in the sense that it seems like our most important relationships are defined and steered in large part by how we handle the difficult conversations, How we handle things when we are perhaps not our best selves.

Sheila Heen

Quote, it's not just that we have difficult conversations in our most important relationships. Those conversations are the relationship. And I've been thinking about this a lot in the sense that it seems like our most important relationships are defined and steered in large part by how we handle the difficult conversations, How we handle things when we are perhaps not our best selves. And to that extent, they are what define a good or a bad relationship. So I just wanted to share that because it stuck out for everyone who reviewed the last conversation that we had on the side of my team. How should we talk about, because we did discuss a lot surrounding difficult conversations, and we will edge into a lot of shared territory. But how should we talk about feedback?

Tim Ferriss

For me, when feedback is incoming, part of what I'm doing is scanning for what's wrong with it. We can circle back to this question because there's a great set of things that are typically wrong with the feedback, at least that other people give me. So it's a shift from, I have to decide whether I agree or disagree and what's wrong with it. Before I decide, let me just understand it. Let me just understand what they're trying to say. So if we go to what language does that suggest, you can ask questions in one of two directions. Feedback always has a past and a future. So you can either ask more about where it's coming from, say more about what you heard me say, or can you give me an example of that? Or tell me more about the impact that that had in the exchange. So

Tim Ferriss

Me, when feedback is incoming, part of what I'm doing is scanning for what's wrong with it. We can circle back to this question because there's a great set of things that are typically wrong with the feedback, at least that other people give me. So it's a shift from, I have to decide whether I agree or disagree and what's wrong with it. Before I decide, let me just understand it. Let me just understand what they're trying to say. So if we go to what language does that suggest, you can ask questions in one of two directions. Feedback always has a past and a future. So you can either ask more about where it's coming from, say more about what you heard me say, or can you give me an example of that? Or tell me more about the impact that that had in the exchange. So you're asking questions of curiosity about what is it that you notice that is prompting you to say this to me? The other direction that you can ask questions in is forward-looking. Where is it going to? If I were to take your advice, what would I do differently? What specifically are you suggesting or requesting? If I'm feeling particularly defensive, that set of questions is sometimes easier. If

Tim Ferriss

Is.

Sheila Heen

Any thoughts for either how to deescalate or self-talk that you can use so that the person on the receiving end is able to kind of reply in a calm, cool, and collected fashion?

Tim Ferriss

It could be that calm, cool, and collected is more aspirational than realistic. And one thing that can help is just to name the surprise or the, this just came out of left field. I'm totally knocked off my center. So just saying, wow, okay, sorry, this is coming out of left field. So I'm just kind of on my back foot so that you're just naming where you're at in this moment. And sometimes just naming it can help you find your feet again, because you're like, okay, I've just accurately described where I'm at. I can be in that space. And now they know I'm in that space or just saying, okay, I'm feeling a little defensive. And then you can move to a question, a question that I've been using recently that has helped just quickly get to the heart of what's going on is what do you feel like I don't get? What is it that you feel I really don't get about whatever

Sheila Heen

Asked him to just vivisect my work. And his response was, basically, I've read it. I want to read more. Just keep going. And what I gleaned from that was that he said, that's great, kid. I recognize that you want me to tear this apart, and that's not what you need right now. So I'm actually going to give you the appreciation, not the coaching and evaluation. I'm gonna give you like the pat on the back and the kick in the ass just to keep going, because actually that's what you need right now. And he was right. Of course, I'm speculating a lot about his inner experience, but that's, I think, the intention behind the feedback that he gave me. So how do people take this framework, the three kinds of feedback, and put it into practice, I suppose? What are some ways that people might think about carrying that into their day? They listen to this, they carry it into their day or their week.

Tim Ferriss

One thing that helps is just to be clearer about what you're short on right now or what you're asking someone for, or if you're being asked to give feedback, to ask them and maybe not trust Their answer. What I hear him saying is implicitly, we're speculating. Maybe I think what you just need is the encouragement to keep going right now. He could also be thinking in the early stages of any fiction, there are a hundred things wrong with it. You don't figure out what they are until you're further down the road and you're coming back and revising. So you're just not at the stage that's a good match for specific coaching because

Sheila Heen

Day? They listen to this, they carry it into their day or their week.

Tim Ferriss

One thing that helps is just to be clearer about what you're short on right now or what you're asking someone for, or if you're being asked to give feedback, to ask them and maybe not trust Their answer. What I hear him saying is implicitly, we're speculating. Maybe I think what you just need is the encouragement to keep going right now. He could also be thinking in the early stages of any fiction, there are a hundred things wrong with it. You don't figure out what they are until you're further down the road and you're coming back and revising. So you're just not at the stage that's a good match for specific coaching because you just need to keep going. Once you see where this arc goes, you'll back up and see and figure out what needs to change. Who knows? He's got some philosophy in his own head. In terms of getting specific about things you can do with this framework of types of feedback, they have different purposes. Easy way to remember them is ACE, A-C appreciation, coaching, and evaluation. We need all three.

Sheila Heen

Could you just perhaps spend a little more time differentiating between coaching and evaluation? Because